Discussion:
New members
(too old to reply)
MLC
2003-10-29 03:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Jenni can no longer accept new membership will she take the site down? And
someone post some nude shots for godsakes! for this rejected wannabe member
yack
2003-10-29 14:13:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by MLC
Jenni can no longer accept new membership will she take the site down? And
someone post some nude shots for godsakes! for this rejected wannabe member
why do you think she can't take any new members?
American Chick
2003-10-29 17:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by yack
Post by MLC
Jenni can no longer accept new membership will she take the site down? And
someone post some nude shots for godsakes! for this rejected wannabe member
why do you think she can't take any new members?
I checked her membership page, and it seems the only options are PayPal
or send her a check. PayPal has cut everyone off that has any adult
content, and if they catch someone going ahead and not stopping their
paypal, they freeze the account. All it would take would be one person
to complain to paypal, and her account is gone.

Didn't she used to take IBill.com? All of the credit card processors
now charge a $750 fee for Visa (it's a Visa rule for adult websites and
stores with adult products), and I think they do it for Mastercard too,
but I'm not sure on that.

It now costs money to be able to take credit cards if you're doing
anything adult. And since Jenni (used to) get naked on cam, that would
be adult in their minds.

So no paypal for her, and only could do the other processors if she
paid the $750 fee.

I've wondered what the cam girls are doing for payment with all these
new rules. If any of them do even one nude show, they are classified as
adult, and can no longer use pay pal. (Though some people are still
using Paypal, just haven't been caught yet and had their accounts
frozen...but all it takes is one email to paypal and they get shut
down)

Paypal did this a few months ago, and it really caused a lot of grief
for people. Some switched to a company called StormPay, but a number of
people have had trouble getting their money from them. They aren't
protected by any American laws because they are located offshore. So if
they want to rip you off, tough luck.

Visa says their new rules are because adult sites have high chargeback
rates, but adult webmasters say it's just part of the program to shut
down as much porn as they can.

Oh, and now there's a new twist. A company called Acacia claims to own
the patents on ALL streaming/downloadable video and audio, and has sent
packets of info to adult webmasters saying they either have to pay big
bucks, or they can no longer have any streaming media on their
websites. Doesn't matter if it's Windoze, Real Player, Quicktime, avi,
mpeg, wav or what. They claim to own the patent on all of it, and it's
really shaken up the adult web community. Not all webmasters have
gotten their packets, but many have, and nobody seems to know what to
do. Some of the big porn sites have just paid them so they can keep
running.

But if Jenni has any video or audio downloads on her site, then
according to Acacia, she can't have them, or has to pay them money. (I
think for the small webmasters, it's 1500 bucks...more for larger, and
they base it on percentage of sales) They're threatening to sue anyone
who doesn't comply and a lot of webmasters are freaking out.

Here's a group trying to fight acacia:

http://www.fightthepatent.com/

and here is Acacia's website:

http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/index.htm
yack
2003-10-29 23:23:58 UTC
Permalink
switching to top posting, since your post was so long

briefly though, she's not a porn site. nudity in itself isn't
pornography. if someone as high profile as jenni hasn't been cut off,
then i doubt paypal considers her site a violation of their terms.

visa isn't interesting in stopping porn, they're interested in making
more bucks from it. they know that the profitable porno folks have no
problem paying the high fee.

in the end, she is accepting paypal memberships. you seem to think she
can't any more, but she is.

i also doubt acacia would bother with sueing anyone like jenni. i would
expect they're after folks like microsoft, apple, real networks, etc. I
haven't actually dug into their website, but my first glance didn't find
any proprietary claims on streaming, just claims on types of streaming.
i didn't dig deep though.
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
Post by MLC
Jenni can no longer accept new membership will she take the site down?
And
someone post some nude shots for godsakes! for this rejected wannabe member
why do you think she can't take any new members?
I checked her membership page, and it seems the only options are PayPal
or send her a check. PayPal has cut everyone off that has any adult
content, and if they catch someone going ahead and not stopping their
paypal, they freeze the account. All it would take would be one person
to complain to paypal, and her account is gone.
Didn't she used to take IBill.com? All of the credit card processors
now charge a $750 fee for Visa (it's a Visa rule for adult websites and
stores with adult products), and I think they do it for Mastercard too,
but I'm not sure on that.
It now costs money to be able to take credit cards if you're doing
anything adult. And since Jenni (used to) get naked on cam, that would
be adult in their minds.
So no paypal for her, and only could do the other processors if she
paid the $750 fee.
I've wondered what the cam girls are doing for payment with all these
new rules. If any of them do even one nude show, they are classified as
adult, and can no longer use pay pal. (Though some people are still
using Paypal, just haven't been caught yet and had their accounts
frozen...but all it takes is one email to paypal and they get shut
down)
Paypal did this a few months ago, and it really caused a lot of grief
for people. Some switched to a company called StormPay, but a number of
people have had trouble getting their money from them. They aren't
protected by any American laws because they are located offshore. So if
they want to rip you off, tough luck.
Visa says their new rules are because adult sites have high chargeback
rates, but adult webmasters say it's just part of the program to shut
down as much porn as they can.
Oh, and now there's a new twist. A company called Acacia claims to own
the patents on ALL streaming/downloadable video and audio, and has sent
packets of info to adult webmasters saying they either have to pay big
bucks, or they can no longer have any streaming media on their
websites. Doesn't matter if it's Windoze, Real Player, Quicktime, avi,
mpeg, wav or what. They claim to own the patent on all of it, and it's
really shaken up the adult web community. Not all webmasters have
gotten their packets, but many have, and nobody seems to know what to
do. Some of the big porn sites have just paid them so they can keep
running.
But if Jenni has any video or audio downloads on her site, then
according to Acacia, she can't have them, or has to pay them money. (I
think for the small webmasters, it's 1500 bucks...more for larger, and
they base it on percentage of sales) They're threatening to sue anyone
who doesn't comply and a lot of webmasters are freaking out.
http://www.fightthepatent.com/
http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/index.htm
American Chick
2003-10-30 00:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by yack
switching to top posting, since your post was so long
briefly though, she's not a porn site. nudity in itself isn't
pornography. if someone as high profile as jenni hasn't been cut off,
then i doubt paypal considers her site a violation of their terms.
I've known others, though, who aren't really considered porn, and
they've lost their PayPal accounts over this issue. But I don't think
there's any hard and fast rule, so maybe they're letting her get by
with it. Dunno.
Post by yack
visa isn't interesting in stopping porn, they're interested in making
more bucks from it. they know that the profitable porno folks have no
problem paying the high fee.
Agreed.
Post by yack
in the end, she is accepting paypal memberships. you seem to think she
can't any more, but she is.
I don't know. I thought the guy who posted saying she wasn't taking any
more memberships might have meant her PayPal got closed. But was just
speculation. I don't know why (if true) she isn't taking new members.
Post by yack
i also doubt acacia would bother with sueing anyone like jenni. i would
expect they're after folks like microsoft, apple, real networks, etc. I
haven't actually dug into their website, but my first glance didn't find
any proprietary claims on streaming, just claims on types of streaming.
i didn't dig deep though.
They have mailed packets to all kinds of sites, and it's way beyond
Real, etc. Hustler and some other big sites have already paid them, but
it's a huge concern in the porn world, because the claim is that anyone
with avis, wavs, etc. must pay their licensing fees. Apparently they
are going after universities and other non adult sites, too.

http://www.fightthepatent.com/v2/Foundation/DearWebmasters.html

Here are some discussions about it all, and I'm sure any adult
webmastering board is probably discussing it too:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/forumdisplay.php?s=2822b45059afed3f4968b7b
06a327df2&forumid=26

A lot of people have gotten these ominous "final notice" packets from
Acacia. I would imagine if that site that used to have the Jenni Show
were still up and running (is it?), they likely got one too.

It's a huge mess, and nobody really knows what the bottom line is, just
that the big guys have paid Acacia off, and that there are allegations
floating around that some of the content sponsors gave out addresses.

AC
yack
2003-10-30 03:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
in the end, she is accepting paypal memberships. you seem to think she
can't any more, but she is.
I don't know. I thought the guy who posted saying she wasn't taking any
more memberships might have meant her PayPal got closed. But was just
speculation. I don't know why (if true) she isn't taking new members.
When I checked her site, paypal payment still seemed to be an option.
She's famous for not updating her site though, so perhaps her paypal
account *is* closed and she hasn't stated this anywhere. I'm certainly
not going to try and sign up just to find out.
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
i also doubt acacia would bother with sueing anyone like jenni. i would
expect they're after folks like microsoft, apple, real networks, etc. I
haven't actually dug into their website, but my first glance didn't find
any proprietary claims on streaming, just claims on types of streaming.
i didn't dig deep though.
They have mailed packets to all kinds of sites, and it's way beyond
Real, etc. Hustler and some other big sites have already paid them, but
it's a huge concern in the porn world, because the claim is that anyone
with avis, wavs, etc. must pay their licensing fees. Apparently they
are going after universities and other non adult sites, too.
http://www.fightthepatent.com/v2/Foundation/DearWebmasters.html
Here are some discussions about it all, and I'm sure any adult
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/forumdisplay.php?s=2822b45059afed3f4968b7b
06a327df2&forumid=26
A lot of people have gotten these ominous "final notice" packets from
Acacia. I would imagine if that site that used to have the Jenni Show
were still up and running (is it?), they likely got one too.
It's a huge mess, and nobody really knows what the bottom line is, just
that the big guys have paid Acacia off, and that there are allegations
floating around that some of the content sponsors gave out addresses.
I don't doubt they will threaten everyone, since it's free and easy to
send an email (just ask jenni). Following up with an actual lawsuit is
another matter. I'd like to see them try frankly, since it's
ridiculous. It's not unlike saying I have to pay a license fee to talk
on the phone to someone. But the thing is, I don't think it will go to
court. They are trying to intimidate people into paying. The suckers
pay. The ones that don't probably won't get sued. If it does go to
court, it will be determined *exactly* what the patent covers (or
doesn't) and the streaming methods will be altered so they don't
infringe. It's a way for lawyers to get rich.

I do appreciate the links you've provided. But I'd like to point out
that I haven't seen any qualitative information on the fighthepatent
website. It seems like fear mongering that gives vague information and
asks for a donation in the end.
American Chick
2003-10-30 05:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by yack
I don't doubt they will threaten everyone, since it's free and easy to
send an email (just ask jenni).
Actually the packets that were sent out were to people's home and
business addresses. Snail mail. That's where some allegations that some
of the content providers had given out addresses, because some people
put in bs info in their domain info. But Acacia had their legit
addresses. Some friends of mine operate relatively small, personal
sites (cam), and have gotten the packets and are now trying to decide
what to do. The packets all came certified mail, so it's more than just
a nasty email.
Post by yack
Following up with an actual lawsuit is
another matter. I'd like to see them try frankly, since it's
ridiculous. It's not unlike saying I have to pay a license fee to talk
on the phone to someone. But the thing is, I don't think it will go to
court. They are trying to intimidate people into paying. The suckers
pay. The ones that don't probably won't get sued.
Acacia has already filed a number of lawsuits. That's why people are
running around trying to figure out what to do, to ignore the "final
warning" packets (there were previous packets that nearly everyone
ignored), to give in and pay (like Hustler and some other biggies did
already, but Acacia is basing it on your overall sales, and the lowest
amount I think you can get away with is 1500 bucks...for the little
guys, everyone else is being raped to the tune of 1-2 percent of their
gross sales), or to hire an attorney.

It kind of reminds me of Al Gore inventing the internet, but they seem
to have some meat behind this one. And there's still confusion over
what isn't covered by all of their patents. The latest I can figure is
that live streaming media is NOT covered, but just about everything
else is, whether it's true streaming media, or just downloadable media.
Post by yack
I do appreciate the links you've provided. But I'd like to point out
that I haven't seen any qualitative information on the fighthepatent
website. It seems like fear mongering that gives vague information and
asks for a donation in the end.
Here's an older story from Forbes (though it says 700 companies have
been contacted...the figure is much higher now):

http://www.forbes.com/home_europe/2003/04/02/cz_sl_0402porn.html

There's a lot more if you're interested. Just google Acacia and
lawsuits and I'm sure lots of stuff will turn up. :)

It will be interesting to see what happens when they decide to move
this out of this arena, and go after the big dogs like Real.com and so
on.
yack
2003-10-30 14:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
I don't doubt they will threaten everyone, since it's free and easy to
send an email (just ask jenni).
Actually the packets that were sent out were to people's home and
business addresses. Snail mail. That's where some allegations that some
of the content providers had given out addresses, because some people
put in bs info in their domain info. But Acacia had their legit
addresses. Some friends of mine operate relatively small, personal
sites (cam), and have gotten the packets and are now trying to decide
what to do. The packets all came certified mail, so it's more than just
a nasty email.
It amounts to the same thing. Whether it's email or a registered
letter. It's a threat. It doesn't mean they expect to win in court.
Fear and intimitation is how you get money from folks.

I would also point out that the letters sent out aren't even legal.
Many of them are incorrec in the name and address information. They've
also been sent to people who aren't violating their main claim (i.e. no
streaming content). I'd take it more seriously if their name and
addresses were compiled using proper methods. Business name and
incorporations searches take time and money to compile, but are a
necessary step if you expect to have it stand up in court. You can't
just snatch a database from a content provider have expect it to be
accurate. Also, the content provider should be the one being sued, not
the resellers of the content. The whole thing is ridiculous. It's all
fear and intimidation.
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
Following up with an actual lawsuit is
another matter. I'd like to see them try frankly, since it's
ridiculous. It's not unlike saying I have to pay a license fee to talk
on the phone to someone. But the thing is, I don't think it will go to
court. They are trying to intimidate people into paying. The suckers
pay. The ones that don't probably won't get sued.
Acacia has already filed a number of lawsuits. That's why people are
running around trying to figure out what to do, to ignore the "final
warning" packets (there were previous packets that nearly everyone
ignored), to give in and pay (like Hustler and some other biggies did
already, but Acacia is basing it on your overall sales, and the lowest
amount I think you can get away with is 1500 bucks...for the little
guys, everyone else is being raped to the tune of 1-2 percent of their
gross sales), or to hire an attorney.
They filed lawsuits, and some have already been dismissed. Most likely
because they withdrew. They don't want to lose you see, because there
goes all their ability to threaten with the letter and get more suckers
to pay up. They will drag this on for years without ever completing a
court case.
Post by American Chick
It kind of reminds me of Al Gore inventing the internet, but they seem
to have some meat behind this one. And there's still confusion over
what isn't covered by all of their patents. The latest I can figure is
that live streaming media is NOT covered, but just about everything
else is, whether it's true streaming media, or just downloadable media.
First of all, Al Gore did invent the internet. (Thanks Al.)

They don't have meat. If they did, they would have picked someone as a
first target, sued them, got a judgement in their favour, and used that
as the club to force others to pay up or be sued. Instead, they're
trying to initimidate as many as possible *without* sueing anyone first.

Believe me, I understand your concerns. If I was a rich dude, I'd set
up such a business just for the opportunity to go to court and have it
struck down. In fact, I'd probably have a counter suit case if what
I've read about their tactics is true. ( But I don't necessarily
believe anything I've read on the internet. In fact, you and I might
not even be real. :)
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
I do appreciate the links you've provided. But I'd like to point out
that I haven't seen any qualitative information on the fighthepatent
website. It seems like fear mongering that gives vague information and
asks for a donation in the end.
Here's an older story from Forbes (though it says 700 companies have
http://www.forbes.com/home_europe/2003/04/02/cz_sl_0402porn.html
There's a lot more if you're interested. Just google Acacia and
lawsuits and I'm sure lots of stuff will turn up. :)
It will be interesting to see what happens when they decide to move
this out of this arena, and go after the big dogs like Real.com and so
on.
I find it interesting that they haven't gone after Real.com etc. They
know those folks have real lawyers, that they understand the technology
(since they're written it), that they have their own patents that may
defeat their claims, that they have the muscle to squash them if they
choose to harass them (can you say microsoft). I double dog dare them
to go after micro$oft.

When I say I want qualitative information, I don't mean websites with
opinions (instead of fact), or articles in main stream media (which are
also more about opinion than fact). I'm not interested in hearsay.
What I want is information that could be submitted in a court of law,
previous court case documents, that kind of thing. Even an opinion from
a patent/copyright lawyer might be nice. Without that, it's all just
conjecture.

As a bettering man, the cards on the table say it just won't fly in the
end. Anyone care to make a wager?

MLC
2003-10-30 01:37:49 UTC
Permalink
First and foremost I just tried to join her site as recently as last Friday,
she Jenni replied that her Pay-Pal account was closed due to a violation of
the terms and agreement and I could not join by mail either, in fact she was
returning all mail subscriptions. Her site is done if she can't find
another avenue of receiving payment for her bandwidth. And please her site
is just as much about nudity as watching her eat,sleep, or watch TV. In
retrospect I wish I had my curiosity peeked when she was a free spirit! Now
please post all nudes that you may have.

Thanks
Post by yack
switching to top posting, since your post was so long
briefly though, she's not a porn site. nudity in itself isn't
pornography. if someone as high profile as jenni hasn't been cut off,
then i doubt paypal considers her site a violation of their terms.
visa isn't interesting in stopping porn, they're interested in making
more bucks from it. they know that the profitable porno folks have no
problem paying the high fee.
in the end, she is accepting paypal memberships. you seem to think she
can't any more, but she is.
i also doubt acacia would bother with sueing anyone like jenni. i would
expect they're after folks like microsoft, apple, real networks, etc. I
haven't actually dug into their website, but my first glance didn't find
any proprietary claims on streaming, just claims on types of streaming.
i didn't dig deep though.
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
Post by MLC
Jenni can no longer accept new membership will she take the site down?
And
someone post some nude shots for godsakes! for this rejected
wannabe
Post by yack
Post by American Chick
Post by yack
Post by MLC
member
why do you think she can't take any new members?
I checked her membership page, and it seems the only options are PayPal
or send her a check. PayPal has cut everyone off that has any adult
content, and if they catch someone going ahead and not stopping their
paypal, they freeze the account. All it would take would be one person
to complain to paypal, and her account is gone.
Didn't she used to take IBill.com? All of the credit card processors
now charge a $750 fee for Visa (it's a Visa rule for adult websites and
stores with adult products), and I think they do it for Mastercard too,
but I'm not sure on that.
It now costs money to be able to take credit cards if you're doing
anything adult. And since Jenni (used to) get naked on cam, that would
be adult in their minds.
So no paypal for her, and only could do the other processors if she
paid the $750 fee.
I've wondered what the cam girls are doing for payment with all these
new rules. If any of them do even one nude show, they are classified as
adult, and can no longer use pay pal. (Though some people are still
using Paypal, just haven't been caught yet and had their accounts
frozen...but all it takes is one email to paypal and they get shut
down)
Paypal did this a few months ago, and it really caused a lot of grief
for people. Some switched to a company called StormPay, but a number of
people have had trouble getting their money from them. They aren't
protected by any American laws because they are located offshore. So if
they want to rip you off, tough luck.
Visa says their new rules are because adult sites have high chargeback
rates, but adult webmasters say it's just part of the program to shut
down as much porn as they can.
Oh, and now there's a new twist. A company called Acacia claims to own
the patents on ALL streaming/downloadable video and audio, and has sent
packets of info to adult webmasters saying they either have to pay big
bucks, or they can no longer have any streaming media on their
websites. Doesn't matter if it's Windoze, Real Player, Quicktime, avi,
mpeg, wav or what. They claim to own the patent on all of it, and it's
really shaken up the adult web community. Not all webmasters have
gotten their packets, but many have, and nobody seems to know what to
do. Some of the big porn sites have just paid them so they can keep
running.
But if Jenni has any video or audio downloads on her site, then
according to Acacia, she can't have them, or has to pay them money. (I
think for the small webmasters, it's 1500 bucks...more for larger, and
they base it on percentage of sales) They're threatening to sue anyone
who doesn't comply and a lot of webmasters are freaking out.
http://www.fightthepatent.com/
http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/index.htm
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